WEBVTT

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Okay, well,

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I think we're going to get started.

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Today is our fourth, or I'm sorry,

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our third series in our all team meeting.

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And today Dan Obrecht is going to talk to us about chlorides.

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Dan's a senior research specialist with the MU School ...

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of Natural Resources and he's also a member of the science team.

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So today he's going to share chloride data from studies ...

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and data collection efforts since Hinkson Creek was ...

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listed as impaired on the 303 D list.

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And then he's going to share what we do and do not know ...

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about chlorides and their potential effects to Hinkson ...

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Creek. Dan.

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All right, well,

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thank you and happy Earth Day to everybody.

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Let's get into it a real quick outline of the talk.  Today.

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We're going to review the conceptual ecological model real quickly.

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Then we'll spend some time talking about what chloride is ...

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and why we care about it.

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The biggest part of the presentation is going to be ...

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looking at results from six different studies that have occurred.

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And then, as noted,

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we'll end with sort of a list of what we know and then a ...

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bigger list of things we don't know about chloride in Hinkson Creek.

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So to bring back the conceptual ecological model ...

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that Tim introduced last week,

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just as a reminder, it's sort of a graphical ...

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roadmap that got put together to help us sort of ...

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tease out the different factors that might be influencing the ...

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invertebrate community.

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And so there are physical aspects,

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biological aspects, chemical, hydrologic.

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And you notice there's a lot of arrows connecting things to each other.

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And I think one thing to note is it's a really complex ...

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system, and anytime you change one ...

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factor, it does have an effect on other factors.

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The part of the ecological model we're going to focus in ...

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on is this bottom part here.

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And if we zoom in today, we're going to talk about the ...

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exposure of chloride and how that might be contributing to ...

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the impairment of the invertebrate community.

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Now, I left some of the other ...

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possible issues that can contribute to that impairment,

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along with some of these other arrows to really bring ...

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home the fact that while we feel chloride is a problem,

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there are probably other problems that also contribute ...

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to this impairment.

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Hinkson Creek, being an urban stream,

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has a lot of stressors that it has to deal with.

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And the idea that the problem is just one of them and not a ...

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contribution of a number of stressors doesn't seem realistic.

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So let's talk about chloride.

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It's a form of the element chlorine.

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Naturally occurring makes up 0.05%

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of the earth's crust.

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So that means it's not one of the more common elements,

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but also it's not one of the rarest.

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It's found normally in unpolluted fresh waters at a ...

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concentration somewhere between one and 100 ...

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milligrams per liter.

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And you can think of that unit as being parts per million.

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There are regional differences in terms of the ...

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chloride concentration you'll find in fresh waters,

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and those differences are associated with differences in ...

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geology as well as climate.

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Now, to put the one to 100 ...

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milligrams per liter into context,

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you might find in brackish waters,

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such as estuaries along the coast,

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chloride concentrations ranging from 1000 to 10,000 ...

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milligrams per liter.

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And then seawater clogs in at a little over 19,000 milligrams per liter.

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Going back to chemistry class,

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chloride is a negatively charged anion,

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which means it's oftentimes associated with positively ...

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charged cations.

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Most frequently, we're talking about calcium ...

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chloride, magnesium chloride,

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potassium chloride, and the one we're all familiar ...

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with, sodium chloride.

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Now, while we're going to talk ...

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about chloride as being a pollutant today,

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it is important to note that it's essential for life.

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Some of the things that make it essential is it helps ...

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maintain proper ph balance in organisms.

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It's crucial for the proper function of the nervous system.

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And then it also helps to regulate the fluids inside and ...

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outside of cells, a process known as ...

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osmoregulation.

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So if you think about it from the perspective of a fish or an ...

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aquatic invertebrate that lives in the stream and is ...

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surrounded by water constantly,

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there's a natural tendency for that water to want to move ...

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into the cells, into the body,

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and kind of flood the cells.

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So this ability to osmoregulate is a really ...

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important thing.

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What happens is when you have excess chloride levels ...

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and fresh water, it interferes with organisms ...

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ability to osmoregulate and control that fluid level in their cells.

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And when you disrupt that, you can have an influence on ...

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survival, growth,

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as well as reproduction.

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So even if chloride levels aren't high enough to just out ...

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and out kill organisms, if you interfere with their ...

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ability to reproduce, you're still going to have ...

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some problems in terms of losing those organisms in your stream.

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Now, it's naturally occurring,

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it's essential.

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But like so many other things, the levels of chloride in the ...

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environment can become extremely due to human activities.

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Some of those sources include effluent from ...

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industrial plants that might release chloride containing ...

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salts, dust control measures on ...

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gravel roads, one of the ways to control ...

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dust is to spray a sodium solution onto the gravel road,

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contains chloride, and ultimately that will wash ...

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off, end up in the ditch,

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make its way to a local stream effluent from sewage ...

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treatment plants.

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And we can probably also consider any effluent coming ...

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from smaller treatments such as,

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yeah, I'm just blanked on the word.

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Anyway.  Treatment plants are a source.

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Humans have, especially Americans,

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a high chloride diethyde.

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Chloride is not something that the body retains,

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and so you end up with high levels coming out of your ...

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sewage treatment plants or local legumes can also be a ...

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source fertilizer application.

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If you're applying potassium to your field or even your ...

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lawn, there's a possibility that that ...

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potassium is in the form of potassium chloride.

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And then finally, the one I think most of us ...

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think about, and that's those wintertime ...

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salt applications on roads, driveways, parking lots.

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As deicer so how much chloride is too much chloride?

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So I mentioned before, your normal range is one to ...

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100 milligrams per liter.

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The state lists two values that represent problematic levels.

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The first one is 230 milligrams per liter,

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and it's known as the chronic level.

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So basically, if you have 230 milligrams per ...

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liter or more chloride in an aquatic environment for more ...

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than four days, you're probably going to have ...

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some toxicity issues with your aquatic life.

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The second value is known as the acute level,

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and that's at 860 milligrams per liter.

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So if you have this extremely high value,

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you can run into problems if it's maintained for an hour or more.

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Something to note about chloride toxicity.

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It's, there's still some things that ...

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are unknown about it, and there may be other ...

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environmental factors such as temperature,

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dissolved oxygen, water hardness,

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or sulfate concentrations that influence toxicity.

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So it is very possible that two streams could have the exact ...

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same chloride concentration, but because of the water ...

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quality and these other water quality factors,

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that chloride may be a little bit more toxic in,

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in one of those streams compared to the other.

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So it's not a perfect science, if you will.

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Let's get into the data.

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We're going to review results from six different studies.

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They're listed here.

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The first two were studies that the Department of ...

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Natural Resource did.

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There's a USGS, actually,

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it was a toxicity experiment that involves some sampling ...

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of Hinkson and some of the tributaries.

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The work from the MU hydrology lab,

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that was Jason Hubbard's lab,

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a geosyntex study from the winter of 2019 and 20 that ...

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Cody discussed last week and then the MU limnology ...

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lab's ongoing synoptic sampling.

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We'll start with the first Department of Natural ...

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Resources study that ran from 2001 to 2001 2006.

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You see here on the map, the red stars represent the ...

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sampling or monitoring sites, and they're listed here on the left.

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We're going to break things up kind of the same way that ...

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Cody did last week in that any site above this I 70 ...

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Highway 63 interchange, specifically these two are ...

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going to be considered upstream sites because ...

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they're in a more rural setting.

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And then the rest of the sites that occur at the I 70 ...

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interchange on down to where the hinks and dumps ...

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into Perchy Creek are going to be kind of grouped as the ...

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downstream or more urban sites.

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The study also collected samples from tributaries to ...

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the Hinksone, including Hominy Branch,

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Grindstone, Flat Branch,

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County House Branch, Mill Creek,

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and then Meredith Branch.

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Along with tributaries, there were three reference ...

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and control streams that were also monitored.

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You had the Bon fem had two sites,

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the Luther river had two sites, and the Avaz also had two sites.

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So let's get into the data.

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So I've grouped basically the sites as reference control,

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tributary, upstream Hinkson,

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downstream Hinkson data in the table is pretty much the ...

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same data shown in the graphic.

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So that way, whichever works best for you,

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that's how you can take the data. In.

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What we're looking at in the table here are average ...

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chloride values for all the samples from those four ...

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different groups, as well as the range of values.

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And then you can also, like I said,

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look at the graphic, and that gives you a pretty ...

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good idea of the range of values and how they were distributed.

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Some of the take home points here,

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basically, the tributaries upstream and ...

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downstream Hinkson had about three to four times ...

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more chloride than the reference and control on average.

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The other thing you can see with the reference and control ...

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streams in the table as well as the graphic is there wasn't ...

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a whole lot of variability.

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Values were low, intended to be low every time ...

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they were sampled.

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The sites in the Hinkson watershed tributaries as well ...

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as the Hinkson had a little bit more variability,

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and we picked up some higher values.

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I do have the chronic level marked here,

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230 milligrams per liter.

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And during the course of that study,

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there was only one value that crept up over 230.

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If I remember right, that was a collection from ...

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Forum Boulevard.

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The study also had, in 2004,

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nine samples collected from stormwater drainages.

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And there were some samples.

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Three of those were from a storm or rain event and then ...

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the rest were from a snow melt runoff event.

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And the drainages are shown here in the map.

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There was one drainage that basically picked up the water ...

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coming off the I 70 highway 63 interchange.

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One of these storms drains was coming off of the old ...

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Missouri Department of Transportation maintenance ...

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facility where they used to store salt.

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Three of the drainages, or drain pipes were behind ...

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the Broadway marketplace complex.

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So the northern one was labeled Walmart,

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the middle one, Sams and Lowe's.

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And then the bottom or southern one was ...

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megamarket, which was there at the time.

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And then there was a 6th site over on the west side of the ...

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Hinkson Creek that collected water coming off the country ...

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club golf course.

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So the results are shown here in the table.

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The storm runoff values you see all exceeded 100 ...

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milligrams per liter.

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So there was a little bit of elevation over what you would expect.

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But it's really the snowmelt runoff samples that jump out ...

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as being really amazingly high in some cases.

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00:15:11.880 --> 00:15:15.524
The one exception is the country club golf course ...

256
00:15:15.524 --> 00:15:19.079
where the value is only 48 milligrams per liter.

257
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:22.890
So I think this information here kind of shows you what ...

258
00:15:22.890 --> 00:15:26.580
kind of difference you have in your runoff when you're ...

259
00:15:26.580 --> 00:15:28.958
looking at an impervious surface.

260
00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:34.660
Surface that's probably been treated with de icer versus an ...

261
00:15:34.660 --> 00:15:40.320
area where you probably had limited treatment with Deicer.

262
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:45.204
There was also during that snowmelt runoff,

263
00:15:45.204 --> 00:15:48.919
a sample collected from Hinkson Creek at Broadway.

264
00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:52.275
So downstream from all of this,

265
00:15:52.275 --> 00:15:57.439
and that site came in at 125 milligrams per liter.

266
00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:02.297
So I think one thing to note here is while you have some ...

267
00:16:02.297 --> 00:16:05.239
amazingly high values here in those.

268
00:16:05.280 --> 00:16:07.817
Those runoffs or those, you know,

269
00:16:07.817 --> 00:16:10.989
storm sewers, by the time it hit the creek,

270
00:16:10.989 --> 00:16:14.161
those values, those concentrations were ...

271
00:16:14.161 --> 00:16:18.239
being diluted due to all the other snowmelt coming in.

272
00:16:18.400 --> 00:16:19.542
So, you know,

273
00:16:19.542 --> 00:16:23.386
you look at a value like 22,000 and you think,

274
00:16:23.386 --> 00:16:26.398
well, that's seriously bad stuff.

275
00:16:26.560 --> 00:16:29.606
But luckily, we've got dilution happening ...

276
00:16:29.606 --> 00:16:33.499
and that kind of helped keep those numbers down a little ...

277
00:16:33.499 --> 00:16:34.599
bit on that day.

278
00:16:36.760 --> 00:16:39.490
The second study we're going to look at is,

279
00:16:39.490 --> 00:16:43.079
again another Department of Natural Resources study.

280
00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:46.800
This one went from 2012 to 2017.

281
00:16:48.040 --> 00:16:50.582
Again, the sites are shown on the ...

282
00:16:50.582 --> 00:16:52.559
map and listed over here.

283
00:16:52.680 --> 00:16:57.600
I think there was one fewer site on the downstream ...

284
00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:00.240
section of Hinkson Creek.

285
00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:04.369
This study did not involve tributaries,

286
00:17:04.369 --> 00:17:08.383
and there were only two sites on Bon femme that were ...

287
00:17:08.383 --> 00:17:10.199
monitored as control.

288
00:17:12.600 --> 00:17:15.509
So again, same setup table with the ...

289
00:17:15.509 --> 00:17:18.919
data as well as the graphic this timeout.

290
00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:23.155
What we find is the upstream Hinkson averaged 14 ...

291
00:17:23.155 --> 00:17:25.959
milligrams per liter chloride.

292
00:17:26.040 --> 00:17:29.080
It was actually a little bit lower than the bonfem.

293
00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:32.040
When you look at the ranges, they're very similar.

294
00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.907
So during this study, we had Hinkson upstream ...

295
00:17:35.907 --> 00:17:38.834
being more like the control stream,

296
00:17:38.834 --> 00:17:42.737
and then downstream, we definitely had a higher ...

297
00:17:42.737 --> 00:17:46.347
average and more variation, higher values,

298
00:17:46.347 --> 00:17:50.640
though it should be noted, none of them exceeded that ...

299
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:53.957
230 milligrams per liter chronic level.

300
00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:56.558
Now, one of the differences ...

301
00:17:56.558 --> 00:17:59.335
between this study and the previous one,

302
00:17:59.335 --> 00:18:02.193
this study, I believe all the samples were ...

303
00:18:02.193 --> 00:18:06.358
collected in conjunction with the invertebrate monitoring ...

304
00:18:06.358 --> 00:18:08.318
that occurs spring and fall.

305
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.684
In the previous study, samples were collected in ...

306
00:18:11.684 --> 00:18:14.802
conjunction with those invertebrate samplings,

307
00:18:14.802 --> 00:18:18.143
but there were also samples collected during low flow ...

308
00:18:18.143 --> 00:18:19.999
periods throughout the year.

309
00:18:20.120 --> 00:18:23.700
So the previous study had some samples that were ...

310
00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:27.280
wintertime samples, while this study does not.

311
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:30.890
And that might help kind of explain why we're seeing a ...

312
00:18:30.890 --> 00:18:35.439
little bit different response here in this upstream hinks and sites.

313
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:39.960
Okay. Third study is something that ...

314
00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:43.554
the US Geological Survey did back in 2011,

315
00:18:43.554 --> 00:18:48.688
and this was really an in lab toxicity test for the most part,

316
00:18:48.688 --> 00:18:52.693
but it did involve the collection of water from ...

317
00:18:52.693 --> 00:18:58.238
Hinkson and a couple of its tributaries to use in the experiment.

318
00:18:58.800 --> 00:19:04.320
The sites that were monitored include one upstream Hinkson site.

319
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.454
I believe that's Rogers Road, that was kind of used as the ...

320
00:19:08.454 --> 00:19:10.399
control in the experiment.

321
00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:14.440
And everything else was compared to the results from that site.

322
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.908
There were four downstream sites,

323
00:19:17.908 --> 00:19:21.563
one at I 71 at Broadway, one at Providence,

324
00:19:21.563 --> 00:19:25.531
and then one at forum, and then there were also ...

325
00:19:25.531 --> 00:19:29.917
samples collected in grindstone and flat branch.

326
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.181
Basically, the study ran between ...

327
00:19:35.181 --> 00:19:38.557
January 24 and February 1, 2011,

328
00:19:38.557 --> 00:19:43.433
and it was basically in response to a major snow ...

329
00:19:43.433 --> 00:19:47.559
event where over 16 inches of snow fell.

330
00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:51.645
And so they wanted to see if, obviously,

331
00:19:51.645 --> 00:19:57.116
the de icers that were applied during that were having a ...

332
00:19:57.116 --> 00:20:01.279
negative toxic effect on invertebrates.

333
00:20:01.600 --> 00:20:06.457
One thing to note is there was never a big melt during ...

334
00:20:06.457 --> 00:20:09.959
the period where they were sampling.

335
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.742
So, unlike some of those storm ...

336
00:20:13.742 --> 00:20:18.208
samples that we had from that DNR sampling,

337
00:20:18.208 --> 00:20:22.799
we didn't have a big slug snow melt coming in.

338
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.620
In fact, they noted that the Hinkson ...

339
00:20:25.620 --> 00:20:29.987
Creek water levels and flow remain fairly stable during the ...

340
00:20:29.987 --> 00:20:31.559
course of this study.

341
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:35.991
So they were collecting water samples again from the creek ...

342
00:20:35.991 --> 00:20:38.747
in their tributaries to test for toxicity,

343
00:20:38.747 --> 00:20:40.890
and they were using cera, Daphne,

344
00:20:40.890 --> 00:20:42.344
Adubia, this guy here,

345
00:20:42.344 --> 00:20:43.798
as their test subject.

346
00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:48.137
And they were interested in both the survival of the ...

347
00:20:48.137 --> 00:20:50.079
daphnia, or water flea,

348
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.799
as well as reproductive success.

349
00:20:54.280 --> 00:20:58.467
What we're looking at here are the chloride values in the ...

350
00:20:58.467 --> 00:21:02.119
samples that they collected from the watershed.

351
00:21:02.280 --> 00:21:05.311
Again, that upstream site averaged ...

352
00:21:05.311 --> 00:21:09.959
21 milligrams per liter of chloride with four samples.

353
00:21:10.120 --> 00:21:13.114
And then as we move downstream into the ...

354
00:21:13.114 --> 00:21:16.295
watershed, farther down the watershed,

355
00:21:16.295 --> 00:21:20.038
we see numbers increase, the little asterisks.

356
00:21:20.120 --> 00:21:25.488
Note those values that were statistically different from this ...

357
00:21:25.488 --> 00:21:27.919
value for the upstream site.

358
00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.508
I will note that while the grindstone sample looks ...

359
00:21:32.508 --> 00:21:35.503
significantly higher than what we had upstream,

360
00:21:35.503 --> 00:21:38.133
for some reason, there was only one sample,

361
00:21:38.133 --> 00:21:40.398
so I don't think they did statistics.

362
00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:45.455
But what you see is definitely the Hinkson sites ...

363
00:21:45.455 --> 00:21:50.119
downstream had more chloride than this upstream site.

364
00:21:50.280 --> 00:21:55.051
And you also see that the tributaries grindstone and flat ...

365
00:21:55.051 --> 00:22:00.319
branch had a lot higher chloride levels than the upstream site.

366
00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:04.560
In terms of the toxicity experiment.

367
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:07.680
Again, we've got our sites here.

368
00:22:07.800 --> 00:22:09.911
They basically had ten individuals,

369
00:22:09.911 --> 00:22:12.976
and they were looking to see how many of them lived over ...

370
00:22:12.976 --> 00:22:14.678
the course of the experiment.

371
00:22:15.360 --> 00:22:18.576
The ones in the upstream Hinkson water,

372
00:22:18.576 --> 00:22:21.886
all ten of them lived, as did the ones at I 70 ...

373
00:22:21.886 --> 00:22:23.399
Hinkson Broadway.

374
00:22:23.560 --> 00:22:26.134
There were only eight of ten that lived,

375
00:22:26.134 --> 00:22:29.879
but that was because two of them were accidentally killed ...

376
00:22:29.879 --> 00:22:32.921
during the experiment, lost one individual at ...

377
00:22:32.921 --> 00:22:36.198
Grindstone, and then the other two Hinkson sites.

378
00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:37.480
No mortality.

379
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:40.019
Flat branch, on the other hand,

380
00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:43.954
where we had the highest chloride concentrations,

381
00:22:43.954 --> 00:22:46.974
had only three surviving cera daphnia,

382
00:22:46.974 --> 00:22:48.438
or a 70% mortality.

383
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:53.084
The other part of the study was looking at reproduction,

384
00:22:53.084 --> 00:22:55.922
and as you look through the numbers here,

385
00:22:55.922 --> 00:22:59.679
what stands out is most of the sites averaged around 30 ...

386
00:22:59.679 --> 00:23:03.269
young per adulthood, while flat branch only had 2.2 ...

387
00:23:03.269 --> 00:23:04.437
young per adult.

388
00:23:04.560 --> 00:23:08.675
So it seems that not only were the high concentrations ...

389
00:23:08.675 --> 00:23:12.242
in the flat branch water leading to mortality,

390
00:23:12.242 --> 00:23:14.985
but where you didn't get mortality,

391
00:23:14.985 --> 00:23:20.198
you were definitely seeing some negative impacts on reproduction.

392
00:23:23.120 --> 00:23:27.325
The fourth study was from the Mu hydrology lab,

393
00:23:27.325 --> 00:23:30.559
and this is the work by Hubbard et al.

394
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.640
That was published in this paper here.

395
00:23:34.120 --> 00:23:36.971
Basically, we're looking at five sites,

396
00:23:36.971 --> 00:23:39.403
two of them upstream, Rogers Road,

397
00:23:39.403 --> 00:23:42.757
Hinkson Creek Road, and then three downstream ...

398
00:23:42.757 --> 00:23:44.015
sites, Broadway,

399
00:23:44.015 --> 00:23:47.118
Providence Road, and then Scott Boulevard.

400
00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:51.517
And this was basically, they were doing a lot of ...

401
00:23:51.517 --> 00:23:57.359
monitoring and looking at a lot of different water quality parameters.

402
00:23:57.520 --> 00:23:59.880
We're just going to focus in on chlorides.

403
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.625
But basically, they were collecting four ...

404
00:24:03.625 --> 00:24:07.664
samples each week, and this ran from October of ...

405
00:24:07.664 --> 00:24:09.839
2009 through May of 2014.

406
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:13.240
So we're talking about a lot of information here.

407
00:24:16.120 --> 00:24:18.840
This table shows us the data.

408
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:23.622
And I will note that the information was broken up ...

409
00:24:23.622 --> 00:24:27.342
not by calendar year, but by water year,

410
00:24:27.342 --> 00:24:31.852
which basically is the October 1 of a given year,

411
00:24:31.852 --> 00:24:37.038
through the winter to September of the following year.

412
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:42.960
And so we had four full water years worth of information.

413
00:24:43.360 --> 00:24:46.228
And in this last year, basically they stopped ...

414
00:24:46.228 --> 00:24:48.719
sampling before they got to September.

415
00:24:48.800 --> 00:24:51.204
So it's not a complete water year,

416
00:24:51.204 --> 00:24:55.239
but it does encompass the period during the wintertime.

417
00:24:56.280 --> 00:25:00.237
In terms of our five sites for each water year,

418
00:25:00.237 --> 00:25:01.799
I've gotten bold.

419
00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:04.364
The average chloride concentration,

420
00:25:04.364 --> 00:25:05.839
milligrams per liter.

421
00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:11.240
And then below that is the range of values in milligrams per liter.

422
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.120
And then down here across the bottom, I've got.

423
00:25:14.280 --> 00:25:16.838
Basically, I just averaged these ...

424
00:25:16.838 --> 00:25:21.041
averages for the water years to get an overall average,

425
00:25:21.041 --> 00:25:25.518
and then I averaged the maximum values for each water year.

426
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:32.000
And I think this row really is kind of what I'd focus on in that.

427
00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:35.022
Rogers Road, we had generally low,

428
00:25:35.022 --> 00:25:37.559
on average, chloride values.

429
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:43.280
Our maximum average maximum was 133.

430
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.310
So, well below the chronic level,

431
00:25:46.310 --> 00:25:49.180
we get down to Hinkson Creek Road,

432
00:25:49.180 --> 00:25:52.358
which is still considered upstream,

433
00:25:52.358 --> 00:25:55.228
we see that we've almost doubled,

434
00:25:55.228 --> 00:25:57.483
on average, the chloride,

435
00:25:57.483 --> 00:26:01.276
and our average maximum has jumped up to 238.

436
00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:04.825
And then we get into the downstream sites,

437
00:26:04.825 --> 00:26:08.879
and we definitely see a lot more chloride on average.

438
00:26:09.560 --> 00:26:12.805
One thing to note is, while the averages for ...

439
00:26:12.805 --> 00:26:15.780
Broadway, Providence and Scott are all ...

440
00:26:15.780 --> 00:26:19.115
very similar, we definitely had our highest ...

441
00:26:19.115 --> 00:26:21.278
values at the Broadway site.

442
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:24.365
And then when you look up into the table,

443
00:26:24.365 --> 00:26:25.982
you can see that, yes,

444
00:26:25.982 --> 00:26:30.295
there were definitely three out of the five years that was ...

445
00:26:30.295 --> 00:26:32.361
where we picked up the most,

446
00:26:32.361 --> 00:26:33.798
the most chloride.

447
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.462
Another way they looked at the data in the paper was ...

448
00:26:41.462 --> 00:26:46.638
looking at the number of days in which those toxicity levels,

449
00:26:46.638 --> 00:26:50.799
the acute and the chronic levels, were exceeded.

450
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:54.049
And so the information in the graphic,

451
00:26:54.049 --> 00:26:56.682
again, is the same information down ...

452
00:26:56.682 --> 00:26:57.998
here in the table.

453
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.212
At Rogers Road site, there was one day where ...

454
00:27:01.212 --> 00:27:04.809
they jumped up over the chlorides jumped up over 230 ...

455
00:27:04.809 --> 00:27:06.398
milligrams per liter.

456
00:27:07.120 --> 00:27:11.000
No values were measured that would be considered acute.

457
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.306
Hinkson Creek Road, there were no acute values,

458
00:27:15.306 --> 00:27:19.599
but we had eight days that were above or at chronic levels.

459
00:27:19.760 --> 00:27:24.087
And then when we get to the downstream sites,

460
00:27:24.087 --> 00:27:29.583
we see acute concentrations occurring on twelve days at ...

461
00:27:29.583 --> 00:27:33.559
Broadway and 106 days of chronic levels.

462
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.962
And then again, that chronic value seemed to ...

463
00:27:37.962 --> 00:27:44.039
be fairly similar as we go from one downstream site to the other.

464
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:47.971
But the acute values and the number of times we reach the ...

465
00:27:47.971 --> 00:27:51.119
acute level decreases as we move downstream.

466
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:56.141
So this tells us that we were picking up some higher ...

467
00:27:56.141 --> 00:28:00.199
values here at Broadway than at the other sites.

468
00:28:00.320 --> 00:28:03.480
And this may be either a reflection of.

469
00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:06.083
Well, probably is a reflection of a ...

470
00:28:06.083 --> 00:28:09.959
certain level of dilution as we're moving downstream.

471
00:28:10.320 --> 00:28:14.522
But definitely, I think this underscores the ...

472
00:28:14.522 --> 00:28:18.945
fact that chlorides are a problem and part of the ...

473
00:28:18.945 --> 00:28:24.142
impairment in Hinkson Creek, just based on the fact that ...

474
00:28:24.142 --> 00:28:29.450
we're reaching these toxicity levels at multiple sites,

475
00:28:29.450 --> 00:28:30.998
multiple times.

476
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.440
This graph is a little bit busy.

477
00:28:36.600 --> 00:28:40.220
Basically, it's a plotting of all the data ...

478
00:28:40.220 --> 00:28:45.599
from all five sites across the whole period of the study. Okay.

479
00:28:45.760 --> 00:28:48.778
And you've got your chronic line here,

480
00:28:48.778 --> 00:28:50.759
your acute line above it.

481
00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:55.113
The point I want to make looking at this graphic is ...

482
00:28:55.113 --> 00:28:59.975
there is a certain seasonality where every winter you get ...

483
00:28:59.975 --> 00:29:04.230
some higher values associated with applications ...

484
00:29:04.230 --> 00:29:07.370
of de icers, but you also get some high ...

485
00:29:07.370 --> 00:29:11.929
values at some of the sites during periods that aren't ...

486
00:29:11.929 --> 00:29:15.677
winter, when de icers aren't being applied.

487
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:20.626
And so that's something to keep in mind that we do ...

488
00:29:20.626 --> 00:29:24.789
seem to pick up some chloride in the stream,

489
00:29:24.789 --> 00:29:29.415
even though nobody's actively throwing salt on ...

490
00:29:29.415 --> 00:29:31.959
parking lots or roadways.

491
00:29:32.080 --> 00:29:34.600
And we'll get back to that in a little bit.

492
00:29:34.760 --> 00:29:38.960
The other thing I wanted to point out is when you look at ...

493
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:42.973
some of these periods here, especially right here,

494
00:29:42.973 --> 00:29:47.733
it's real easy to see that we're up above that chronic line for ...

495
00:29:47.733 --> 00:29:49.319
more than four days.

496
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:54.917
So we definitely had some chronic toxicity events at this ...

497
00:29:54.917 --> 00:30:00.279
point and maybe some of these other wintertime periods.

498
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:05.796
So the chlorides can bump up in response to runoff,

499
00:30:05.796 --> 00:30:10.678
and it seems like those values can stay up long ...

500
00:30:10.678 --> 00:30:13.119
enough to be a problem.

501
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.350
Other things that were discussed in the paper ...

502
00:30:18.350 --> 00:30:22.080
included an estimate of how many tons of chloride came ...

503
00:30:22.080 --> 00:30:25.479
off the watershed during the course of the study.

504
00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:30.062
And that was estimated to be over 14,000 tons of chloride ...

505
00:30:30.062 --> 00:30:33.919
from the whole watershed during the whole study.

506
00:30:34.280 --> 00:30:36.960
They also broke it up by sub basins.

507
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:39.120
And again, I apologize.

508
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:43.680
This isn't the clearest map, but basically a sub basin is.  This.

509
00:30:43.760 --> 00:30:48.520
This little symbol here represents the Rogers Road sample site.

510
00:30:48.840 --> 00:30:53.587
So the Rogers Road sub basin is basically all of this ...

511
00:30:53.587 --> 00:30:57.119
area that flows into that sample site.

512
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:00.141
This symbol here, the number two,

513
00:31:00.141 --> 00:31:03.959
represents the second site, the Hinkson Creek Road site.

514
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:09.116
Its sub basin is this area here that flows into it,

515
00:31:09.116 --> 00:31:14.919
but doesnt include the area that flowed into Rogers Road.

516
00:31:15.080 --> 00:31:18.860
And so basically, youve got your Scott sub ...

517
00:31:18.860 --> 00:31:21.884
basin, youve got your Providence ...

518
00:31:21.884 --> 00:31:25.880
sub basin, and then your Broadway sub basin.

519
00:31:26.040 --> 00:31:29.104
And so when we look at how much chloride was ...

520
00:31:29.104 --> 00:31:32.343
contributed by these different subbasins,

521
00:31:32.343 --> 00:31:36.370
we see Rogers Road had the lowest contribution at about ...

522
00:31:36.370 --> 00:31:40.047
4.7 tons of chloride per square mile of area during ...

523
00:31:40.047 --> 00:31:41.798
the course of the study.

524
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:46.539
Hinkson Creek Road, substantially more at 18.2 ...

525
00:31:46.539 --> 00:31:48.599
tons per square mile.

526
00:31:48.760 --> 00:31:50.796
And then when we get to Broadway,

527
00:31:50.796 --> 00:31:54.039
it really jumps up to almost 80 tons per square mile.

528
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:58.240
And that's very similar to what we found down at Scott Boulevard.

529
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:02.170
Note that the Providence Road sub basin,

530
00:32:02.170 --> 00:32:07.079
they estimated only about 23 tons of chloride per square mile.

531
00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:12.363
So the take home here is that while all three of those sites ...

532
00:32:12.363 --> 00:32:16.205
are downstream sites, and we do find higher ...

533
00:32:16.205 --> 00:32:20.794
chloride levels in those sites and maybe upstream,

534
00:32:20.794 --> 00:32:25.703
we're not getting necessarily an even contribution of ...

535
00:32:25.703 --> 00:32:28.478
chloride from every sub basin.

536
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:32.648
And part of that is, if you look at this Providence ...

537
00:32:32.648 --> 00:32:35.649
sub basin, there's a fair amount of area ...

538
00:32:35.649 --> 00:32:39.559
that's coming into that site that isn't urbanized.

539
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:43.890
Other takeaways from the paper there was,

540
00:32:43.890 --> 00:32:47.192
as I mentioned before, a seasonal pattern,

541
00:32:47.192 --> 00:32:49.393
and they estimated about 64%

542
00:32:49.393 --> 00:32:53.337
of chloride loading occurred between the months of ...

543
00:32:53.337 --> 00:32:57.190
December and March during the course of the study,

544
00:32:57.190 --> 00:33:01.776
which seems to indicate that those de icer applications are ...

545
00:33:01.776 --> 00:33:05.996
a pretty substantial source of chloride in this creek.

546
00:33:06.360 --> 00:33:08.307
One thing to note, though,

547
00:33:08.307 --> 00:33:12.201
is that means there's still about a third of chloride ...

548
00:33:12.201 --> 00:33:16.272
getting into the creek and coming into the creek during ...

549
00:33:16.272 --> 00:33:18.838
the April to November time period.

550
00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:23.273
And that kind of gets us to this final point they made ...

551
00:33:23.273 --> 00:33:25.199
about chloride persistence.

552
00:33:26.080 --> 00:33:30.062
One of the parts of the study included looking at what ...

553
00:33:30.062 --> 00:33:35.039
floodplain soils had in terms of their water quality, including.

554
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:40.868
And one of the findings was that during certain times of ...

555
00:33:40.868 --> 00:33:44.115
the year, you can have chloride moving ...

556
00:33:44.115 --> 00:33:48.580
from the stream into those nearby floodplain soils,

557
00:33:48.580 --> 00:33:52.943
and then that chloride may stay there for a while and ...

558
00:33:52.943 --> 00:33:58.118
then at some point later on, be released back into the stream.

559
00:33:58.520 --> 00:34:02.632
So during some of these non winter times where we're ...

560
00:34:02.632 --> 00:34:06.266
picking up chloride levels in Hinkson Creek,

561
00:34:06.266 --> 00:34:09.709
it may not be from applications of salt that ...

562
00:34:09.709 --> 00:34:14.108
occurred the week before, but something that occurred ...

563
00:34:14.108 --> 00:34:15.638
the winter before.

564
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:18.982
And so there's a certain persistence with this chloride ...

565
00:34:18.982 --> 00:34:22.273
remaining in the watershed and taking a little bit of time ...

566
00:34:22.273 --> 00:34:23.438
to kind of flush out.

567
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:29.612
The fifth study is the geosyntex study from the ...

568
00:34:29.612 --> 00:34:31.279
winter of 2019 and 20.

569
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:34.475
Cody talked about this last week,

570
00:34:34.475 --> 00:34:38.594
so I won't spend a whole lot of time on it again,

571
00:34:38.594 --> 00:34:43.472
just to review the five sites, we have the two upstream ...

572
00:34:43.472 --> 00:34:46.398
and the three downstream sites.

573
00:34:47.160 --> 00:34:51.101
And basically what they did was not look at chloride,

574
00:34:51.101 --> 00:34:53.519
but look at water conductivity.

575
00:34:53.680 --> 00:34:58.168
And it was all based on this graphic here that shows us ...

576
00:34:58.168 --> 00:35:01.228
that when conductivity increases,

577
00:35:01.228 --> 00:35:02.758
so does chloride.

578
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:05.320
You've got a positive relationship.

579
00:35:05.520 --> 00:35:10.936
And so they put sensors out at those five sites between ...

580
00:35:10.936 --> 00:35:15.148
December 12 and May 12 and had them set up to ...

581
00:35:15.148 --> 00:35:18.758
collect readings every 30 minutes.

582
00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:22.230
So even though they weren't measuring chloride,

583
00:35:22.230 --> 00:35:25.378
they were measuring something that relates to ...

584
00:35:25.378 --> 00:35:28.042
chloride, and they were measuring it at ...

585
00:35:28.042 --> 00:35:31.998
a much more frequent basis than even the Hubbard paper did.

586
00:35:34.520 --> 00:35:38.000
This is a graphic I made off of a table that Cody showed.

587
00:35:38.080 --> 00:35:42.030
Basically what we've got are the blue values or the blue ...

588
00:35:42.030 --> 00:35:45.894
symbols represent minimum and maximum values at each ...

589
00:35:45.894 --> 00:35:47.439
of these sites. Okay.

590
00:35:47.560 --> 00:35:52.054
The red symbols represent the 25th and the 75th ...

591
00:35:52.054 --> 00:35:54.359
percentile of the data.

592
00:35:54.520 --> 00:35:57.888
So one way of thinking about this is 25%

593
00:35:57.888 --> 00:36:02.309
of the data from Scott Boulevard fall between this ...

594
00:36:02.309 --> 00:36:04.519
blue dot and this red dot.

595
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:07.586
50% of the data fall between the ...

596
00:36:07.586 --> 00:36:10.559
lower red dot and the upper red dot.

597
00:36:10.720 --> 00:36:14.581
And then the remaining data, the rest of it,

598
00:36:14.581 --> 00:36:18.442
the other 25%, fall between this red dot and ...

599
00:36:18.442 --> 00:36:20.479
that maximum blue dot.

600
00:36:21.120 --> 00:36:25.676
So the take home that I want you to get from this is here ...

601
00:36:25.676 --> 00:36:28.264
are maximum values upstream,

602
00:36:28.264 --> 00:36:32.302
very similar to the 75th percentile values for ...

603
00:36:32.302 --> 00:36:33.958
downstream sites.

604
00:36:34.120 --> 00:36:36.749
So at these three downstream sites,

605
00:36:36.749 --> 00:36:38.852
you know, when I look at this,

606
00:36:38.852 --> 00:36:42.358
what I see is 25% of the data that they collected.

607
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:47.534
Basically one out of every four reading was elevated ...

608
00:36:47.534 --> 00:36:51.239
above what you were finding upstream.

609
00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:56.256
And so this tells us that not only are things variable at ...

610
00:36:56.256 --> 00:37:00.901
these downstream sites, but it seems like these high ...

611
00:37:00.901 --> 00:37:06.074
conductivity readings were picking up really frequently ...

612
00:37:06.074 --> 00:37:10.614
during that study period where they had the sensors ...

613
00:37:10.614 --> 00:37:12.197
out in the stream.

614
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:16.865
So things are changing water quality wise during winter in ...

615
00:37:16.865 --> 00:37:21.039
terms of the conductivity and probably the chloride.

616
00:37:21.160 --> 00:37:26.036
And I don't know that they go back to normal as quickly as ...

617
00:37:26.036 --> 00:37:27.520
you might think.

618
00:37:27.600 --> 00:37:32.473
I think things change and stay at elevated levels a little ...

619
00:37:32.473 --> 00:37:36.839
bit longer and probably long enough to be a problem.

620
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:41.940
And you see this when we look at this graphic that Cody ...

621
00:37:41.940 --> 00:37:45.723
showed real quickly, the dashed line represents ...

622
00:37:45.723 --> 00:37:49.598
the discharge or the amount of water in the stream.

623
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.996
The colored lines represent that conductivity,

624
00:37:53.996 --> 00:37:57.712
with the green lines down here being the upstream ...

625
00:37:57.712 --> 00:38:00.068
sites, the blue lines being the ...

626
00:38:00.068 --> 00:38:01.518
downstream sites.

627
00:38:01.640 --> 00:38:03.701
And what I really want to point out is,

628
00:38:03.701 --> 00:38:05.496
yeah, there's some variation in ...

629
00:38:05.496 --> 00:38:06.759
things bounce around.

630
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:11.139
But if you look at it from the standpoint of where ...

631
00:38:11.139 --> 00:38:15.252
conductivity got to be, 1000 microsiemens per ...

632
00:38:15.252 --> 00:38:18.205
centimeter at the Broadway site,

633
00:38:18.205 --> 00:38:23.478
it starts here and stays elevated to there about seven days.

634
00:38:24.240 --> 00:38:28.805
At the Providence site or recreation drive site,

635
00:38:28.805 --> 00:38:32.479
we go from there to there about six days.

636
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:36.123
And then the same with Scott Boulevard,

637
00:38:36.123 --> 00:38:40.627
we basically were elevated above 1000 microsiemens per ...

638
00:38:40.627 --> 00:38:43.119
centimeter for about six days.

639
00:38:43.240 --> 00:38:47.541
So this again kind of tells us that things may increase and ...

640
00:38:47.541 --> 00:38:50.319
it looks like they stay up for a while.

641
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:53.640
They don't come slamming back down to normal right away.

642
00:38:55.680 --> 00:39:00.270
The final study is the one that's currently being done by ...

643
00:39:00.270 --> 00:39:04.079
the Mu Limnology laboratory, synoptic study.

644
00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:09.331
Basically what we're doing for this study is we get ...

645
00:39:09.331 --> 00:39:14.057
everybody in lab geared up, we go out on a selected day,

646
00:39:14.057 --> 00:39:18.468
and we sample all the sites you see on the map here in ...

647
00:39:18.468 --> 00:39:20.358
the course of 2 hours.

648
00:39:20.520 --> 00:39:24.960
So the red symbols represent sites along the Hinkson Creek.

649
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:28.880
The blue symbols represent tributary sites.

650
00:39:30.520 --> 00:39:35.297
And SHOWN here on the left are the dates in which we've ...

651
00:39:35.297 --> 00:39:40.399
done the sampling that I'm going to talk about today with ...

652
00:39:40.399 --> 00:39:44.199
the data we did get out in february of 2021.

653
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:47.000
That's not included in THIs ANALYSIS.

654
00:39:47.160 --> 00:39:50.865
And actually, we've got another sampling ...

655
00:39:50.865 --> 00:39:52.559
plan for next week.

656
00:39:52.720 --> 00:39:55.176
But as you can see, this one,

657
00:39:55.176 --> 00:40:00.409
we're basically trying to take a snapshot of water quality ...

658
00:40:00.409 --> 00:40:04.895
throughout the whole watershed at one time just so ...

659
00:40:04.895 --> 00:40:09.701
we can compare and see how things differ from one end of ...

660
00:40:09.701 --> 00:40:11.837
the stream to the other.

661
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:17.007
The results, I've broken the data up again ...

662
00:40:17.007 --> 00:40:20.359
into upstream, downstream and tributaries.

663
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:24.494
The number of samples that we're looking at for each of ...

664
00:40:24.494 --> 00:40:27.170
Those groups, the average chloride ...

665
00:40:27.170 --> 00:40:30.559
concentration, and then the range of values.

666
00:40:30.680 --> 00:40:33.510
And AGAin, the graphic represents the ...

667
00:40:33.510 --> 00:40:35.279
data shown in the table.

668
00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:38.156
Basically, what you're seeing is ...

669
00:40:38.156 --> 00:40:40.640
UPstream, we had lower levels,

670
00:40:40.640 --> 00:40:43.602
on average, about half of what we were ...

671
00:40:43.602 --> 00:40:46.278
finding in the downstream sites.

672
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:50.512
And then the tributaries were picking up even more ...

673
00:40:50.512 --> 00:40:54.160
chloride than in downstream Hinkson sites.

674
00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:57.798
I've got the chronic level marked here,

675
00:40:57.798 --> 00:41:01.978
and we've got four values that exceed it over the course ...

676
00:41:01.978 --> 00:41:05.158
of the nine samples that we've collected.

677
00:41:05.560 --> 00:41:09.928
I think this upstream site was Hinkson Creek road,

678
00:41:09.928 --> 00:41:14.920
and I believe all three of these sites were in flat branch.

679
00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:21.596
What we're looking at here are the median chloride ...

680
00:41:21.596 --> 00:41:23.765
values, or the middle value,

681
00:41:23.765 --> 00:41:27.561
when we put all the values for a given site in order,

682
00:41:27.561 --> 00:41:31.357
and this is just for those sites in Hinkson Creek.

683
00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:36.335
And so we're going from upstream all the way down to ...

684
00:41:36.335 --> 00:41:40.959
where we have the confluence with Perchy Creek.

685
00:41:41.160 --> 00:41:43.655
And what you see here is, first off,

686
00:41:43.655 --> 00:41:47.957
what jumps out is that very first site tends to be a little bit ...

687
00:41:47.957 --> 00:41:51.399
higher than some of these other upstream sites.

688
00:41:51.720 --> 00:41:54.304
One thing to note is we haven't sampled that site ...

689
00:41:54.304 --> 00:41:56.759
every time because there's not always water.

690
00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:01.495
So I think there's a situation there where this is probably a ...

691
00:42:01.495 --> 00:42:02.959
very low flow site.

692
00:42:03.160 --> 00:42:05.973
And by the time we get downstream a little bit,

693
00:42:05.973 --> 00:42:09.009
we've got a little bit more water in the system and ...

694
00:42:09.009 --> 00:42:12.119
there's a little bit of a dilution factor going on.

695
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:14.800
Values remain fairly low.

696
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:17.373
And then we get past the landfill,

697
00:42:17.373 --> 00:42:21.647
and as we're headed towards the I 70 intersection with 63,

698
00:42:21.647 --> 00:42:25.119
you start seeing chlorides climb a little bit.

699
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:29.596
When you look at an aerial view of the area,

700
00:42:29.596 --> 00:42:34.529
you find that there's a little bit more roadway,

701
00:42:34.529 --> 00:42:40.572
a little bit more development as you're moving from here to ...

702
00:42:40.572 --> 00:42:43.038
that I 70 intersection.

703
00:42:43.160 --> 00:42:46.786
So it probably explains why we're seeing chloride start to ...

704
00:42:46.786 --> 00:42:49.746
increase because we're starting to pick up more ...

705
00:42:49.746 --> 00:42:51.078
impervious surface.

706
00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:57.140
Once you get to the sites basically downtown and on ...

707
00:42:57.140 --> 00:43:02.034
towards Perchy Creek, you see the values are fairly ...

708
00:43:02.034 --> 00:43:04.879
comparable from site to site.

709
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:07.925
And again, you're looking at values that ...

710
00:43:07.925 --> 00:43:12.399
are about four times higher downstream than you had upstream.

711
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:17.382
Okay, so this is a graph that is ...

712
00:43:17.382 --> 00:43:20.359
extremely busy to look at.

713
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:23.430
Basically, it represents all of the values ...

714
00:43:23.430 --> 00:43:25.479
collected in Hinkson Creek.

715
00:43:25.600 --> 00:43:31.480
So each set of symbols and line represents a given sample date.

716
00:43:31.600 --> 00:43:34.790
And then again, we're going from upstream all ...

717
00:43:34.790 --> 00:43:37.644
the way downstream with our values here,

718
00:43:37.644 --> 00:43:39.239
some of the take homes.

719
00:43:39.640 --> 00:43:41.771
Again, things tend to be very ...

720
00:43:41.771 --> 00:43:44.079
consistent. For the most part.

721
00:43:44.160 --> 00:43:46.144
Upstream you get downstream,

722
00:43:46.144 --> 00:43:49.399
you've got more variation from sample to sample.

723
00:43:50.120 --> 00:43:55.777
I do want to point out that this light blue colored line and set ...

724
00:43:55.777 --> 00:44:00.879
of symbols represents a sample collected June of 2018.

725
00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:06.007
And so when you look at this, it shows that basically during ...

726
00:44:06.007 --> 00:44:07.903
that date, that sample,

727
00:44:07.903 --> 00:44:12.265
we had higher chloride levels at pretty much most of the ...

728
00:44:12.265 --> 00:44:16.153
sites across the street, which seems a little bit ...

729
00:44:16.153 --> 00:44:19.093
surprising when you first look at it,

730
00:44:19.093 --> 00:44:22.317
given that it's not a wintertime sample.

731
00:44:22.640 --> 00:44:25.775
What you need to know about that sample day was ...

732
00:44:25.775 --> 00:44:29.652
that was the date out of all of the sample dates where flow ...

733
00:44:29.652 --> 00:44:31.879
was the lowest in Hinkson Creek.

734
00:44:32.040 --> 00:44:36.754
So I don't think the chloride levels that seem to be ...

735
00:44:36.754 --> 00:44:42.479
elevated here necessarily represent more chloride inputs.

736
00:44:42.560 --> 00:44:45.833
I think really what you're seeing is less water,

737
00:44:45.833 --> 00:44:49.843
less dilution in the stream, and that's why those chloride ...

738
00:44:49.843 --> 00:44:53.607
values look a little bit higher and came out a little bit ...

739
00:44:53.607 --> 00:44:54.998
higher than normal.

740
00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:58.040
Other things to note.

741
00:44:58.160 --> 00:45:00.600
Sometimes you get some weird results.

742
00:45:01.320 --> 00:45:05.450
This data point that's off the graph here came from a ...

743
00:45:05.450 --> 00:45:08.139
February sampling, and that was,

744
00:45:08.139 --> 00:45:13.038
if I remember right, that site was located behind Home Depot.

745
00:45:13.720 --> 00:45:15.778
Looked back through the data,

746
00:45:15.778 --> 00:45:18.165
don't know what we were picking up,

747
00:45:18.165 --> 00:45:22.199
but we were definitely picking up something that elevated ...

748
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:24.998
chloride at that site on that given date.

749
00:45:28.200 --> 00:45:32.640
So now let's look at the chloride concentrations in the tributaries.

750
00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:37.349
They include one unnamed tributary in the upper,

751
00:45:37.349 --> 00:45:40.373
more rural part of the watershed,

752
00:45:40.373 --> 00:45:45.558
and then the tributaries that we've talked about before.

753
00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:50.270
I've got the average concentrations as well as the ...

754
00:45:50.270 --> 00:45:51.600
range of values.

755
00:45:51.720 --> 00:45:55.994
And then in the graphic, you can see basically all the ...

756
00:45:55.994 --> 00:45:59.199
data points for each of the given sites.

757
00:46:00.520 --> 00:46:03.920
Take home the unnamed tributary upstream.

758
00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:08.926
Very low chloride levels, very consistent chloride levels ...

759
00:46:08.926 --> 00:46:10.479
from sample to sample.

760
00:46:10.640 --> 00:46:13.748
As we move down through the watershed,

761
00:46:13.748 --> 00:46:17.828
we start picking up more chloride with flat branch ...

762
00:46:17.828 --> 00:46:21.033
leading the way in terms of high values,

763
00:46:21.033 --> 00:46:24.433
both on average as well as maximum values,

764
00:46:24.433 --> 00:46:27.638
and you can see that here in the graphic.

765
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:30.840
Basically, I've got the chronic level marked out.

766
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:33.480
And again, three samples that we've ...

767
00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:35.906
collected, all from flat branch,

768
00:46:35.906 --> 00:46:37.639
have exceeded that 230.

769
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:41.040
So that's the data.

770
00:46:41.200 --> 00:46:45.720
Now let's get into what we know about chlorides in Hinkson Creek.

771
00:46:46.200 --> 00:46:48.050
First off, we know they tend to be ...

772
00:46:48.050 --> 00:46:51.133
higher in Hinkson Creek than in reference and control ...

773
00:46:51.133 --> 00:46:53.120
streams, somewhere about three to ...

774
00:46:53.120 --> 00:46:55.038
four times higher in Hinks Creek.

775
00:46:55.080 --> 00:46:57.953
Creek tributaries of Hinkson Creek,

776
00:46:57.953 --> 00:47:01.289
especially those larger ones downstream,

777
00:47:01.289 --> 00:47:05.830
have chloride concentrations that are similar or greater ...

778
00:47:05.830 --> 00:47:09.629
than those in the creek, which kind of makes sense ...

779
00:47:09.629 --> 00:47:13.150
because when you get looking at where they're ...

780
00:47:13.150 --> 00:47:15.837
located, they are also impacted by ...

781
00:47:15.837 --> 00:47:19.636
urbanization, just like Kingston Creek itself.

782
00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:24.720
So it's not surprising that they're not at reference level.

783
00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:29.823
Chloride downstream urban hincks and creek sites have ...

784
00:47:29.823 --> 00:47:34.519
higher chloride levels than upstream rural sites.

785
00:47:34.720 --> 00:47:36.769
Again, this is not something that ...

786
00:47:36.769 --> 00:47:38.159
should be surprising.

787
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:40.180
And the difference is, again,

788
00:47:40.180 --> 00:47:43.081
maybe three to four fold difference in terms of ...

789
00:47:43.081 --> 00:47:45.238
downstream having more chloride.

790
00:47:47.040 --> 00:47:50.285
Azure chloride values have exceeded both chronic and ...

791
00:47:50.285 --> 00:47:51.799
acute levels in the past.

792
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:56.638
This is documented in the Hubbard study as well as ...

793
00:47:56.638 --> 00:47:59.119
with the synoptic sampling.

794
00:47:59.200 --> 00:48:02.637
We've picked up values, DNR picked up values,

795
00:48:02.637 --> 00:48:06.707
so we definitely have had samples that indicate we're ...

796
00:48:06.707 --> 00:48:10.958
reaching these problematic chloride concentrations.

797
00:48:12.560 --> 00:48:16.133
Chloride shows a strong relation to conductivity in ...

798
00:48:16.133 --> 00:48:18.813
Hinkson Creek, which be useful because ...

799
00:48:18.813 --> 00:48:22.793
measuring conductivity with a sensor allows you to really ...

800
00:48:22.793 --> 00:48:26.204
collect a lot more data than if you have to go out and ...

801
00:48:26.204 --> 00:48:28.478
actually collect a water sample.

802
00:48:28.520 --> 00:48:32.554
To do chloride analyses on high conductivity,

803
00:48:32.554 --> 00:48:37.312
values measured during the winter 2019 and 20 remained ...

804
00:48:37.312 --> 00:48:42.173
elevated for a long enough period that we very well might ...

805
00:48:42.173 --> 00:48:46.621
be looking at some chronic issues if those chloride ...

806
00:48:46.621 --> 00:48:50.758
values exceeded 230 milligrams or micrograms.

807
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:52.240
No milligrams per liter.

808
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:53.480
Sorry about that.

809
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:57.400
So that's what we know what we don't know.

810
00:48:57.800 --> 00:49:02.090
How often do these chronic toxicity events and acute ...

811
00:49:02.090 --> 00:49:04.040
toxicity events occur?

812
00:49:04.560 --> 00:49:08.067
If you think back to the Hubbard work,

813
00:49:08.067 --> 00:49:12.931
we had values that exceeded acute toxicity at three ...

814
00:49:12.931 --> 00:49:15.759
different sites downstream.

815
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:18.488
Remember, that was based on collections ...

816
00:49:18.488 --> 00:49:21.359
of four samples during the course of the week.

817
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:22.399
So, you know,

818
00:49:22.399 --> 00:49:25.714
we're talking, it was a lot of data collected,

819
00:49:25.714 --> 00:49:29.378
but there's still a lot of days where we didn't have ...

820
00:49:29.378 --> 00:49:32.518
collections in terms of the chronic level.

821
00:49:32.680 --> 00:49:35.718
Right now, we know that we exceed that ...

822
00:49:35.718 --> 00:49:38.560
230 milligrams per liter at times.

823
00:49:38.840 --> 00:49:42.775
And really the question is, does it remain elevated for ...

824
00:49:42.775 --> 00:49:47.479
that four day period to where it would be considered a toxic event?

825
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:52.715
Chloride levels that are above normal but below chronic ...

826
00:49:52.715 --> 00:49:55.639
values cause problems if maintained long term.

827
00:49:56.320 --> 00:50:00.194
So the thought behind this question is simply,

828
00:50:00.194 --> 00:50:03.870
if you don't reach 230 milligrams per liter,

829
00:50:03.870 --> 00:50:07.546
but you only reach 200 milligrams per liter,

830
00:50:07.546 --> 00:50:11.718
what happens if you maintain that for 710, 14 days?

831
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:13.320
Can that be a problem?

832
00:50:16.520 --> 00:50:19.264
Are there other water quality parameters,

833
00:50:19.264 --> 00:50:21.398
such as sulfate, water hardness,

834
00:50:21.398 --> 00:50:24.371
temperature, that interact with chlorides to ...

835
00:50:24.371 --> 00:50:27.039
influence the toxicity in Hinkson Creek?

836
00:50:27.160 --> 00:50:31.623
So we know these other parameters can play a role,

837
00:50:31.623 --> 00:50:35.759
and so the question is, what role do they play,

838
00:50:35.759 --> 00:50:40.548
and do they make chloride more toxic in Hinkson Creek ...

839
00:50:40.548 --> 00:50:44.358
than it might be in other systems, or less?

840
00:50:44.560 --> 00:50:46.960
So something to look at there.

841
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:51.305
How large of an issue are the elevated chloride levels that ...

842
00:50:51.305 --> 00:50:53.682
occur outside of winter, and what are the ...

843
00:50:53.682 --> 00:50:55.919
mechanisms that lead to these values?

844
00:50:56.080 --> 00:50:59.655
So we know we can pick up elevated chloride levels ...

845
00:50:59.655 --> 00:51:01.399
during non winter time.

846
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:07.138
It seems that some of this is from chloride that's retained ...

847
00:51:07.138 --> 00:51:09.759
in water or floodplain soils.

848
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:14.589
So how big of an issue is it that this chloride seems to be ...

849
00:51:14.589 --> 00:51:19.502
feeding in from the watershed across the whole year and is ...

850
00:51:19.502 --> 00:51:21.958
not just a wintertime event?

851
00:51:22.240 --> 00:51:26.846
And then it's also important to understand the mechanisms ...

852
00:51:26.846 --> 00:51:30.230
involved here, because when we start doing ...

853
00:51:30.230 --> 00:51:33.896
management to reduce chloride inputs into the ...

854
00:51:33.896 --> 00:51:36.340
stream, we'll have to take into ...

855
00:51:36.340 --> 00:51:40.852
account those inputs from the watershed that represent,

856
00:51:40.852 --> 00:51:43.672
you know, maybe chlorides that were ...

857
00:51:43.672 --> 00:51:46.398
applied during a previous winter.

858
00:51:48.080 --> 00:51:50.680
How far upstream is chloride a problem?

859
00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:55.608
When you really get to it and look at the bulk of the data,

860
00:51:55.608 --> 00:51:59.747
there's really been limited amounts of information ...

861
00:51:59.747 --> 00:52:03.604
collected above the I 70 highway 63 interchange,

862
00:52:03.604 --> 00:52:07.743
and the synoptic sampling seems to indicate we start ...

863
00:52:07.743 --> 00:52:11.506
picking up more chloride somewhere between the ...

864
00:52:11.506 --> 00:52:12.917
landfill and I 70.

865
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:17.290
So one question would be, how far up is chloride ...

866
00:52:17.290 --> 00:52:20.480
reaching those levels of concern?

867
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:26.184
Should we monitor in an effort to identify hotspots for ...

868
00:52:26.184 --> 00:52:28.519
chloride, and how would we do that?

869
00:52:28.600 --> 00:52:32.999
So the idea here is you're not getting an equal amount of ...

870
00:52:32.999 --> 00:52:36.919
chloride necessarily from all of the watershed.

871
00:52:37.040 --> 00:52:42.536
So is there a way for us to do monitoring to help us identify ...

872
00:52:42.536 --> 00:52:46.658
those locations, those sub basins that are ...

873
00:52:46.658 --> 00:52:52.040
really a source of chloride a little bit above and beyond ...

874
00:52:52.040 --> 00:52:53.757
other sub basins?

875
00:52:56.040 --> 00:52:58.796
What other sources of chlorides beside wintertime ...

876
00:52:58.796 --> 00:53:01.359
applications are contributing to the problem?

877
00:53:01.560 --> 00:53:03.840
Again, this is going to be really ...

878
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:07.218
important when you get into management that you ...

879
00:53:07.218 --> 00:53:11.356
understand all of the sources so that you can address all of ...

880
00:53:11.356 --> 00:53:14.565
those to make sure that you're going to get the ...

881
00:53:14.565 --> 00:53:16.676
benefit that you're seeking.

882
00:53:18.240 --> 00:53:21.159
What management practices can be adopted to reduce ...

883
00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:25.639
chloride applications during winter while still maintaining public safety?

884
00:53:26.680 --> 00:53:28.778
You know, there's got to be,

885
00:53:28.778 --> 00:53:32.062
and probably are some newer technologies,

886
00:53:32.062 --> 00:53:37.079
some newer approaches to putting de icers down in the wintertime.

887
00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:43.227
What are they and can we implement them all the same ...

888
00:53:43.227 --> 00:53:48.319
time maintaining that required public safety?

889
00:53:49.160 --> 00:53:53.511
Because having talked to the various city,

890
00:53:53.511 --> 00:53:55.082
county, state,

891
00:53:55.082 --> 00:54:00.883
and as well as the university personnel who deal with salt ...

892
00:54:00.883 --> 00:54:05.838
application safety is their number one concern.

893
00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:09.263
And so that has to be taken into consideration when we ...

894
00:54:09.263 --> 00:54:10.839
start doing management.

895
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:14.615
Are there portions of the watershed where ...

896
00:54:14.615 --> 00:54:17.450
implementing management practices would result in ...

897
00:54:17.450 --> 00:54:19.318
maximum benefit to water quality?

898
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:23.440
This goes back to that hotspot question.

899
00:54:23.600 --> 00:54:26.325
Basically, if we can identify sub basins ...

900
00:54:26.325 --> 00:54:28.569
that are maybe more problematic,

901
00:54:28.569 --> 00:54:31.855
those would be the ones we would want to implement ...

902
00:54:31.855 --> 00:54:35.060
management in to get the most bang for our buck in ...

903
00:54:35.060 --> 00:54:38.346
terms of reducing chloride inputs to the stream,

904
00:54:38.346 --> 00:54:42.273
it's the best way to monitor chloride in order to determine ...

905
00:54:42.273 --> 00:54:45.078
the efficiency of management practices.

906
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:48.517
So once we start implementing management ...

907
00:54:48.517 --> 00:54:51.754
practices to reduce chloride and hinson,

908
00:54:51.754 --> 00:54:55.915
one question is how do we go about monitoring that so we ...

909
00:54:55.915 --> 00:55:00.169
know for sure that we're actually achieving the goal of ...

910
00:55:00.169 --> 00:55:02.758
reducing chloride in the stream.

911
00:55:04.520 --> 00:55:07.692
What are other municipalities doing to address chloride ...

912
00:55:07.692 --> 00:55:09.079
levels in urban streams?

913
00:55:09.160 --> 00:55:11.980
Obviously, this is nothing a problem to ...

914
00:55:11.980 --> 00:55:14.800
Hinkson Creek and Hinkson Creek alone.

915
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:19.280
A lot of urban streams are dealing with this exact same problem.

916
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:23.957
And so maybe by looking into what other municipalities are ...

917
00:55:23.957 --> 00:55:26.169
doing, we can avoid having to ...

918
00:55:26.169 --> 00:55:30.040
reinvent the wheel and we can get some ideas to help ...

919
00:55:30.040 --> 00:55:33.358
us move forward in terms of our management.

920
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:37.880
What is the persistence of chlorides in the watershed?

921
00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:40.620
How long will it take take to see an effect from ...

922
00:55:40.620 --> 00:55:41.999
management practices?

923
00:55:42.080 --> 00:55:45.557
So again, if our watershed is acting to ...

924
00:55:45.557 --> 00:55:49.251
store chlorides from previous winters,

925
00:55:49.251 --> 00:55:54.032
how long are they there and how long should it take for ...

926
00:55:54.032 --> 00:55:58.378
them to kind of flush out of the system and not be a ...

927
00:55:58.378 --> 00:56:01.638
problem in terms of inputs anymore?

928
00:56:03.120 --> 00:56:05.680
And with that I am done.

929
00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:09.962
And we'll take any questions that anybody might have and ...

930
00:56:09.962 --> 00:56:11.959
try to get you some answers.

931
00:56:32.600 --> 00:56:36.760
Dan Cody had a question in the comments.

932
00:56:37.720 --> 00:56:41.720
Okay.  He says synoptic sampling.

933
00:56:42.240 --> 00:56:46.504
Are chloride values quantified through laboratory analysis or ...

934
00:56:46.504 --> 00:56:48.399
using a water quality probe.

935
00:56:49.880 --> 00:56:54.920
We're basically doing lab analysis to get those chloride values.

936
00:56:56.240 --> 00:56:57.304
Hey, thanks Dan.

937
00:56:57.304 --> 00:57:00.420
Do you know what doctor Hubbard used for his study ...

938
00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:01.560
you talked about?

939
00:57:01.720 --> 00:57:04.835
You know, I don't off the top of my head,

940
00:57:04.835 --> 00:57:08.047
but maybe there's someone else on this,

941
00:57:08.047 --> 00:57:12.817
another participant who might have an idea that would have ...

942
00:57:12.817 --> 00:57:14.958
been the use of a YSI probe.

943
00:57:17.680 --> 00:57:19.160
Sorry, this is Lynn.

944
00:57:20.040 --> 00:57:21.200
Good to hear you, Lynn.

945
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:22.720
Recognize my voice.

946
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.240
But yes, that was definitely done with a YSI.

947
00:57:26.840 --> 00:57:27.800
Thank you.

948
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:39.520
This is Todd Houtz from the university.

949
00:57:39.640 --> 00:57:42.488
So I'm thinking back to, you know,

950
00:57:42.488 --> 00:57:46.761
when DNR was first tasked with trying to identify a ...

951
00:57:46.761 --> 00:57:50.118
pollutant and before writing the TMDL.

952
00:57:50.160 --> 00:57:52.258
And so the studies, you know,

953
00:57:52.258 --> 00:57:55.754
from 2001 to 2017, I may have the ears a little off ...

954
00:57:55.754 --> 00:57:58.201
there, but it seems that chloride ...

955
00:57:58.201 --> 00:58:00.998
kind of got dismissed at that point as.

956
00:58:01.080 --> 00:58:03.160
As being the culprit.

957
00:58:03.480 --> 00:58:06.825
Is that just because of the time sampling was done that ...

958
00:58:06.825 --> 00:58:10.393
it wasn't really looking at times that were likely to have ...

959
00:58:10.393 --> 00:58:13.664
higher chloride because they did a fall in the spring ...

960
00:58:13.664 --> 00:58:16.638
sampling versus these more targeted sampling?

961
00:58:16.680 --> 00:58:20.720
Is that why we're seeing such a difference in what they first saw years ago?

962
00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:23.240
I think he nailed it.

963
00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:27.091
I think when you look at the number of times that they ...

964
00:58:27.091 --> 00:58:30.742
had values that exceeded that lower chronic level,

965
00:58:30.742 --> 00:58:33.119
it was minimum, I think, one time.

966
00:58:33.640 --> 00:58:37.653
So it didn't really, chloride didn't really pop as ...

967
00:58:37.653 --> 00:58:40.901
being a problem, but part of that was when ...

968
00:58:40.901 --> 00:58:45.105
they were out sampling may not have been the best time ...

969
00:58:45.105 --> 00:58:49.118
to actually measure your maximum chloride value.

970
00:58:49.240 --> 00:58:51.960
So I think you nailed it.

971
00:58:53.720 --> 00:58:55.960
Hey, Dan and Todd, this is Cody.

972
00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:58.775
I'll add to that it also with timing,

973
00:58:58.775 --> 00:59:02.660
also impacts the amount of flow and volume of water ...

974
00:59:02.660 --> 00:59:04.880
coming down Hinkson Creek.

975
00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:07.276
As Dan mentioned in his presentation,

976
00:59:07.276 --> 00:59:10.883
some of the tributaries had excess levels of chloride that ...

977
00:59:10.883 --> 00:59:14.417
by the time they monitored the chloride levels in Hinkson ...

978
00:59:14.417 --> 00:59:16.478
Creek, you saw a dilution of that.

979
00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:22.127
This is Robert Voss with the Missouri Department of ...

980
00:59:22.127 --> 00:59:22.999
Natural Resources.

981
00:59:23.440 --> 00:59:26.635
There's a few issues with chloride from the acute and ...

982
00:59:26.635 --> 00:59:28.159
the chronic standpoint.

983
00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:30.307
The acute measurement, sure,

984
00:59:30.307 --> 00:59:33.220
if we can get routine measurements over the 860 ...

985
00:59:33.220 --> 00:59:35.759
level, then we can list that as impaired.

986
00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:39.827
The challenge comes with the chronic level and being ...

987
00:59:39.827 --> 00:59:43.995
able to conclusively say that chloride was over the 230 ...

988
00:59:43.995 --> 00:59:47.438
level for an entire four day period or longer.

989
00:59:47.720 --> 00:59:52.840
And that is a challenge with, especially with runoff during winter events.

990
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.836
You may not have stable flow conditions or you may not be ...

991
00:59:55.836 --> 00:59:58.499
able to be out there doing laboratory analysis and ...

992
00:59:58.499 --> 01:00:01.479
collecting samples during that entire four day period.

993
01:00:01.640 --> 01:00:05.701
So it's a challenge to be able to conclusively monitor ...

994
01:00:05.701 --> 01:00:08.860
chloride long term and be able to say that,

995
01:00:08.860 --> 01:00:10.936
yes, the levels of chloride ...

996
01:00:10.936 --> 01:00:15.358
consistently get over 230 for this long of a period of time.

997
01:00:16.520 --> 01:00:18.666
And if I do remember historically,

998
01:00:18.666 --> 01:00:21.404
there was a large, I think a MoDOt facility or ...

999
01:00:21.404 --> 01:00:24.439
something that was storing salt that was removed ...

1000
01:00:24.439 --> 01:00:27.918
because of potential chloride issues in Hinkson Creek.

1001
01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:36.480
That was definitely one of the most visible results of the study.

1002
01:00:36.640 --> 01:00:41.041
The testing that the DNR did that helped identify that and ...

1003
01:00:41.041 --> 01:00:46.359
certainly at least remove what was a very large polluter of the Greek.

1004
01:00:57.960 --> 01:01:00.638
Hi, this is Diane early with ...

1005
01:01:00.638 --> 01:01:06.112
representing stream teams, and it's not specific to the ...

1006
01:01:06.112 --> 01:01:09.839
data that we've been looking at today.

1007
01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:16.555
But I saw that on March 17 the city council took action ...

1008
01:01:16.555 --> 01:01:22.392
and their intention is to restore the flat branch,

1009
01:01:22.392 --> 01:01:27.534
restore its banks, and return what they call ...

1010
01:01:27.534 --> 01:01:32.398
returning the creek to its natural state.

1011
01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:37.240
To me that means they're going to spend some money in the area.

1012
01:01:37.600 --> 01:01:41.525
And my question is, is there any way we can help ...

1013
01:01:41.525 --> 01:01:45.759
mitigate the chloride by, through that project?

1014
01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:49.600
Could they put up some plant buffers?

1015
01:01:49.720 --> 01:01:52.176
I mean, what could be done other ...

1016
01:01:52.176 --> 01:01:54.348
than dynamite or, you know,

1017
01:01:54.348 --> 01:01:58.410
they're going to tear out the concrete there behind ...

1018
01:01:58.410 --> 01:02:01.622
Hardee's, but it's a real contributor of ...

1019
01:02:01.622 --> 01:02:05.873
chlorine and what can we, is there anything we could do ...

1020
01:02:05.873 --> 01:02:08.518
there to improve that situation?

1021
01:02:12.240 --> 01:02:16.071
And I also wonder why they're doing something like ...

1022
01:02:16.071 --> 01:02:20.175
that and they don't even bother to brief us or inform us ...

1023
01:02:20.175 --> 01:02:21.999
as a stakeholder group.

1024
01:02:26.200 --> 01:02:29.433
Yeah, I don't know off the top of my ...

1025
01:02:29.433 --> 01:02:34.398
head of anything that they could implement or put in ...

1026
01:02:34.398 --> 01:02:39.479
place that would necessarily reduce the chlorides.

1027
01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:42.560
Others might have thoughts on that.

1028
01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:49.680
So this is Paul Blanchard.

1029
01:02:50.760 --> 01:02:54.810
Generally it seems like the most likely way to cut down ...

1030
01:02:54.810 --> 01:02:58.500
on the chloride is to cut down on how much chloride ...

1031
01:02:58.500 --> 01:03:01.560
materials are being added to the system.

1032
01:03:01.680 --> 01:03:05.825
And that means for the most part we're looking at what's ...

1033
01:03:05.825 --> 01:03:08.799
put onto the parking lots and roadways.

1034
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:13.260
And Dan didn't really get to the parking lots because ...

1035
01:03:13.260 --> 01:03:17.040
that's not really what most of this data was hitting.

1036
01:03:17.080 --> 01:03:18.720
It was what was in the stream.

1037
01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:23.137
But some of those really hot numbers off the DNR early ...

1038
01:03:23.137 --> 01:03:25.999
work were coming off parking lot areas.

1039
01:03:26.840 --> 01:03:32.440
So that is an important part of the puzzle that needs to be looked at.

1040
01:03:32.920 --> 01:03:39.920
Not just road salt application, but its parking lot salt application.

1041
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:46.830
Yeah, this is Carl Scala with city ...

1042
01:03:46.830 --> 01:03:50.155
council, and I was obviously there is a ...

1043
01:03:50.155 --> 01:03:56.079
huge contribution from roadway salt and wintertime applications.

1044
01:03:56.280 --> 01:04:00.932
Is there also any indication, any significant indication that ...

1045
01:04:00.932 --> 01:04:04.970
urban fertilizers and lawns and so on and so forth in the ...

1046
01:04:04.970 --> 01:04:08.569
spring and fall are a contributing factor to this ...

1047
01:04:08.569 --> 01:04:09.798
chloride issue?

1048
01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:16.258
I mean it definitely could be, but there has not been any ...

1049
01:04:16.258 --> 01:04:20.934
monitoring done to really tease out how much of a ...

1050
01:04:20.934 --> 01:04:26.078
contribution those fertilizer applications make.

1051
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:31.022
And that would probably take some thought in terms of how ...

1052
01:04:31.022 --> 01:04:34.975
to put together a study to really get to those numbers ...

1053
01:04:34.975 --> 01:04:38.119
and figure out what that contribution is.

1054
01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:59.920
Are there any other questions for Daniel?

1055
01:05:04.280 --> 01:05:05.540
Okay then. Well,

1056
01:05:05.540 --> 01:05:07.160
thank you so much Dan.

1057
01:05:09.160 --> 01:05:10.440
It's a pleasure.

1058
01:05:11.480 --> 01:05:15.244
And next week doctor Jacobson will be talking to us ...

1059
01:05:15.244 --> 01:05:19.277
about the science strategy document that the science ...

1060
01:05:19.277 --> 01:05:21.159
team has been working on.

1061
01:05:21.520 --> 01:05:26.200
So we hope to see everybody back for our final session next week.

1062
01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:29.480
Everybody have a good evening.

1063
01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:32.440
Do we have that document now?

1064
01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:35.000
Has Rob already shared that?

1065
01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:43.240
I didn't have a lot of time to study the chloride.

1066
01:05:44.240 --> 01:05:45.320
This is Tim Riley.

1067
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:46.400
I sent it.

1068
01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:49.115
I don't know. It's been a while.

1069
01:05:49.115 --> 01:05:49.959
Okay. Okay.

1070
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:51.995
I thought you sent it. We had,

1071
01:05:51.995 --> 01:05:53.159
but. Okay, good.

1072
01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:58.440
If you don't have it, let me know and I'll send it to you.

1073
01:05:59.880 --> 01:06:00.840
Thank you.

1074
01:06:06.720 --> 01:06:08.120
Enjoy Earth Day.

1075
01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:09.360
Thank you all.

1076
01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:11.720
Thank you.